Curse

prism2525 · Aug 06, 2006, 07:27 PM // 19:27

1st let's write the description of DD...

Double Dragon {E}
15 / ¾ / 30
Elite Spell. For 2 seconds, adjacent foes are struck for 7-91 fire dmg each second. This spell causes exhaustion.

And now let's compare it with Flame Burst...

Flame Burst
15 / ¾ / 5
Spell. Foes in the area are struck by jets of flames for 15-99 fire damage.

or Inferno...

Inferno
10 / ¾ / 20
Spell. All adjacent foes are struck for 30-114 fire damage.

Ok so... Flame burst has same cost but 25 seconds less to recharge and a larger area too. DD hits twice but for less damage, a much higher recharge, PLUS exhaustion.

Inferno has 20 recharge and same aoe size as DD but the dmg is quite higher. IMO inferno is on the same lvl of DD.

I think to make DD really elite it should either: have exhaustion removed, less energy (10 or 5), less time to recharge (although with exhaustion that would be worse)

My idea of a really elite DD:

Double Dragon {E}
10/¾/15
Elite Spell. For 2 seconds, nearby foes are struck for 15-99 fire damage.

As it is now this skill is a clear sign that eles are way underpowered.

Loviatar · Aug 06, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

1st let's write the description of DD...

Double Dragon {E}
15 / ¾ / 30
Elite Spell. For 2 seconds, adjacent foes are struck for 7-91 fire dmg each second. This spell causes exhaustion.

.

did you manage to miss that little detail of EACH SECOND?

TWICE AS MUCH DAMAGE

EDIT

inferno has 114 damage the elite has 182 damage so how is inferno equal?

prism2525 · Aug 06, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

did you manage to miss that little detail of EACH SECOND?

TWICE AS MUCH DAMAGE

EDIT

inferno has 114 damage the elite has 182 damage so how is inferno more powerful?

Yes i saw the double second thing but it has 10 sec more recharge, more cost AND exhaustion. Isn't this a bit too much for an elite?

DD takes up ur elite slot, don't forget that.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 06, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

This is just another joke of a skill in the Elementist arsinel, which is why I think Anet has some serious balance flaws, recast times and cost of alot of skills in the game through many classes are a joke, many of them can not be use enough or don't meet up to the cost.

I think your version of DD is a bit overpowered, you removed the exhaustion and increased the range or the spell as well as reduced the cost, I would say it should not have exhaustion and have a much shorter recast time, then it would be ok.

I mean compare it to pheonix.
15 Energy, 3 s cast, 25 s recast, 7-91 damage on adjacent foes and 15-75 on foes adjacent to your target.

Even this is more effective because both hits are simultanious, it has a longer cast but if the enemy runs the second half will still hit him. Originally it hit nearby foes, and I think it still should, because of the 3 second cast time. If you increased the cast time of DD to 1 second and made it hit nearby foes twice without costing exhaustion it would be alright, at this point though, I mean compare this to Dervish enchantments and you can see how outstandingly weak they are.

The other thing that could be done to match the damage with the exsisting cost is increase the damage 2 fold, make each hit from double dragon deal something like 15-160 or 180 damage for 2 seconds, an elite skill with an exhaustion cost should be powerful, exhaustion spells are ment to be heavy single hits or costly repeatable spells, not a weak double hit.

Gregslot · Aug 06, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I do think double dragon is a joke
Noone uses it, the damage/time is poor compared to most of the other skills (rodgorts invocation, for example), its adjacent, causes a very dullish exhaustion (like you would use very oftenly ¬¬)... and basically thats it
Im not in the mood of thinking too much right now, but i think it sould look a bit like this:
Double Dragon {E}
15/¾/20 (or 25, im really not sure)
Elite Spell. For 2 seconds, nearby foes are struck for 15-99 fire damage.This spell causes exhaustion.

It would still cause the exhasutation, and reduce your total % of energy (counting with the exhaustation)
The damage would work like a double flame brust. And you wouldnt use as oftenly you would use a flame brust

OR
Double Dragon {E}
10 / ¾ / 15
Elite Spell. For 2 seconds, adjacent foes are struck for 7-91 fire dmg each second.

Many possibilities for fixing it.
and yes, i do think this skill is a joke

GiZMo · Aug 06, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I think DD should stay the same EXCEPT make the damage "in the area" and not adjacent foes. I think that'll make a big difference.

prism2525 · Aug 06, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiZMo

I think DD should stay the same EXCEPT make the damage "in the area" and not adjacent foes. I think that'll make a big difference.

Recharge should go down to at least 15 seconds still. It's a f**king elte skill.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 06, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Well there is a simple dilema, either you have low recast time and low range, or have high recast time and high range, either way though even for a high range skill, an elite like this should not have exhaustion or higher recast than 20 seconds.

To make an easy comparison, take Shockwave, an Earth Elite, 10 energy and no exhaustion, 3/4 cast and 20 recast, up to 123 damage on adjacent, 82 damage on nearby, and 41 damage on area.

With Double Dragon, the second hit is escapable if you move quickly, adjacent damage is easy to run from, Shockwave hits instantly and does more damage on closer enemies, it has a lower recast, and much lower cost. For Double Dragons cost it should have higher damage and higher range, or you can lower the cost. There are alot of factors you can alter, but an adjacent spell should be high damage and spammable, which also means no exhaustion. 2 hits over 2 seconds, not instantly on adjacent foes is not very powerful, even if you made them 2 instant hits, it shouldn't cost exhaustion.

unholy guardian · Aug 06, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

exhaustion is stapled on way to many skills...

Sientir · Aug 06, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholy guardian

exhaustion is stapled on way to many skills...

Seconded, especially elites.

And yes, Double Dragon is a joke. IMO, Meteor Shower is better. Three hits, range spell, etc.

prism2525 · Aug 07, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I think anet could at least buff elites so that they are REALLY elites. After all we can only get one at a time no?

shardfenix · Aug 07, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Eles are not underpowered. Sure, they're the weakest class, but that doesn't mean they're underpowered. If you don't like double dragon, use star burst, it has the same damage, less energy, and more targets.

Plushie Penguin · Aug 07, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

bring elemental atunement and rodgort's invocation, works for me

Leonof · Aug 07, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

well unlike inferno or flame burst or even pheonix, DD is ranged so you can cast it from the back without any fear of getting massacred in the front lines. Meteor shower might be better but it has a long cast time vulnerable to interrupts and can be easily avoided if you actually move. And I doubt you can easily avoid the 2nd DD, you could probably avoid it if you constantly move or you actually saw it being cast on you, but if you were standing still doing something both will hit no problem.

Anyways, I'm not a real ele myself but I do play one occasionally. I don't use DD since I don't have a build for it. Try making a build for it first, before you think it sucks, maybe theres a theres a good combo to go with it and it hasn't even been made yet.

Arcador · Aug 07, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

The idea is to make unused skill used...even in PvE. Ele is powerfull indeed, but there are very interesting spells (elites) that are far to weak to have any use - Glimmering Mark, Mist Form...etc...

Roupe · Aug 07, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

I like Mind burn (or Glyph of Renewal) and conjure flame

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 07, 2006, 11:25 AM // 11:25

im dissapointed at the water spells i dont think they should be hexes they should snare liek some fire spells set you on fire spells that blidn yo u/ knock you down

Buzzer · Aug 07, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

It might be a bit underpowered but your version is ridiculous.
254 fire damage over 2 seconds @ 16 fire magic? For 10 energy and no exhaustion?

prism2525 · Aug 07, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonof

well unlike inferno or flame burst or even pheonix, DD is ranged so you can cast it from the back without any fear of getting massacred in the front lines.

Are you sure you're talking about DOUBLE DRAGON?

Vermilion · Aug 07, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plushie Penguin

bring elemental atunement and rodgort's invocation, works for me

Elemental Attunement [e]
Double Dragon [e]

hmm...

I think if you lowered the recharge a little, that'd be fine. I'm no expert on eles, but I think Kaiser has got the right idea also.